What Prevents Us from Deeply Understanding People We Love?
A big question, and a big answer with marital researcher James Córdova (plus, a book giveaway for paid subscribers)
As someone long enamored with relationship science, I have researchers whose work I follow and who, for me, are a version of rock stars. James Córdova is one such researcher.
One of James’ central lines of research involves a marital check-up. This is like your regular dental cleanings but applied to our relationships. He was also a part of the team that tested a powerful marital treatment I practice (called Integrative Behavioral Couples Therapy1). He’s also a practicing clinician, someone who puts the theory into action.
James just released a new book, The Mindful Path to Intimacy: Cultivating a Deeper Connection with Your Partner, which offered me the perfect excuse to finally meet someone I’ve long admired. And I was not disappointed.
James is one of those deeply wise and kind-hearted people whose presence makes you feel like maybe the world isn’t such a bad place, so I’m especially excited to share his wisdom with you today.2 A longer conversation about his book is available on the Psychologists Off the Clock podcast (link here or on whatever podcast player you use).
But today’s newsletter content won’t be found on that episode because after James and I chatted for the podcast, I still wanted to get his deeper thoughts on why misunderstanding so often happens with those we love—and what we can do about it.
[Paid subscribers: scroll to the bottom of this newsletter for a chance to enter the drawing for a copy of James’ new book, The Mindful Path to Intimacy: Cultivating a Deeper Connection with Your Partner. And everyone can order this new book by clicking the button below!]
[This conversation is edited for brevity and clarity.]
Yael: I want to ask a general question, something you delve into in your book, The Mindful Path to Intimacy: What do you think is happening when we're ineffective in listening to more deeply understand? That is, what do you see as some of the main obstructions to understanding in so many of our everyday interactions?
James Cordova: Oh man, if I had the answer to that question (laughing). Well, several things come to mind. Our most natural instinct, the thing that we yearn for the most strongly, is to be understood, right? We put so much of our energy and whatever skills we bring to the table into trying to communicate where we are coming from, how we are feeling, and what's going on for us. And the challenge that feels so universal is that both partners are trying to be understood at the same time.
So with any couple that I work with, one partner will say, “Well, so this is what happened on Saturday, right? And this is why it made me frustrated or angry” Even if the other partner says “Yeah, yeah, totally,” they follow up with, “Well, this is what was going on for me.”
You know, it’s interesting, I've probably got at least a handful of couples where at least one of the partners is a practicing psychologist or counselor. And I have this joke with couples where they're both practicing therapists. I'm like, “Guys, if you can't do this, the rest of us are hosed.” Right? But the reality is that all feedback, no matter how gentle we are, comes at the point of a quill.
It doesn't matter how skillful we are in terms of doing the criticism sandwich, right? Like, “You're amazing. You do so much wonderful stuff, and there's this one little thing.” And that's where it starts, right? So many of these conversations begin with some “ouch.” And then it becomes about me. There's something in the setup that elicits our self-interest. It gets the ego up.
So, because there's a little bit of an ouch in it, listening to understand elicits that fight-or-flight response. And the form that the fight takes is saying, “You did that to hurt me.” Or “That upset me, why’d you do that to me?” It's also sort of an escape response. Like, “How do I make the pain go away?”
We get focused on our own pain, and we're trying to do something about it. It's very simplistic: “I'm hurt; you are the cause.” And then, “How do I do something to get you to change? What do you need to do differently so that I feel better?” And then, I'm responding to my pain, but because I'm giving you feedback, but even if I'm being super skillful at it, now you are no longer listening.

A dilemma I talk to couples about is that we have to give each other feedback. We're dancing really close together and we're gonna step on each other's toes. And if you don't tell me when I step on your toes, I'm never going to be a better dancer. I need the feedback to learn how to be more graceful. But the feedback always stings a little bit.
We did some unpublished research decades ago at this point, where I set partners up to reveal a vulnerability. The task was to share something with your partner, something that they do or did that hurt your feelings. And what I hoped that I would see—what I expected to see—was variability in how people responded, from criticizing back to a response of “Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry.” But even in the best of cases, a partner would at first defend and then apologize. And modally, it was just defend-reiterate-defend-reiterate-defend-reiterate.
The reality is that in difficult conversations, both partners are trying to be understood at the same time. And the only recourse we seem to have is, “I'm not feeling heard and understood.” So, I'm gonna say it again, but with more volume. And then that doesn't work. So then I'm gonna say it again with more volume— and some curse words. And then we just exhaust ourselves and separate.

So this is what I try to help people practice—to hold their reactivity. Because you're giving me feedback, and it hurts. And it's never not going to sting. It's not because you did something bad or that you could give me feedback that wouldn't sting. No, my practice has to become acknowledging that it kind of stings, and it's important for me to hear you. I need to learn to hold my reactivity and reach for empathy so I can understand.
But this does not come naturally to us. We really do have to start with mindfulness practices so that we can then make contact with, “Oh, that actually went better.” It doesn’t feel yummy the whole time, right? But it works better.
Ah, I kind of worship James Córdova and I hope, based on these snippets, that you’ll appreciate why I think he is a brilliant mix of scientific thinking and compassionate practice. Check out our podcast conversation here, and pick up the book here.
And please share this post with those who you want to understand better, and whom you want to understand you better.
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